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 Michael Jackson thread #2

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Moody
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:03 am

PatriciaZ wrote:
There are things we will never know for sure...

We don't know that he molested any children. It is entirely possible that he did, but again we DO NOT know. It is entirely possilbe that he didn't, but again don't know.

We don't know that that the accusers' family weren't after money. They could have been and saw this as a golden opportunity. We just DO NOT know.

I don't know if Paris planned to speak or if she was forced to by anyone in that family. Maybe she chose to as a final tribute to her father, maybe she wanted the world to know that she loved her dad, maybe Janet told her "do this or were calling Debbie"...we don't know.


I can say this though and I am pretty confident about it...

Michael jackson died. He left behind 3 children that loved him. He was the greatest entertainer that the world has ever and will ever see.

RIP, I will miss you MJ...


Well said! tens

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:09 am

I found this article interesting from Rolling Stone. The friendship between Michael Jackson and Brooke Shields has always interested me.


LINK TO ARTICLE

Brooke Shields Recalls Special Relationship with Michael Jackson

A teary Brooke Shields approached the podium at Michael Jackson’s public memorial in Los Angeles today and spoke about the unique friendship the two shared as 1980s megastars thrust into the spotlight at a young age. In the special Michael Jackson commemorative issue of Rolling Stone hitting stands this week, the model-actress reveals the King of Pop asked her to marry him — more than once.

“I would say, ‘You have me for the rest of your life, you don’t need to marry me, I’m going to go on and do my own life and have my own marriage and my own kids, and you’ll always have me,’ ” Shields tells Rolling Stone. “I think it made him relax. He didn’t want to lose things that meant something to him.”

Shields says the innocent nature of the pair’s bond persisted as they grew older, and that as he aged, Jackson became “more asexual” to her. “You saw women who were more sexual, who wanted to throw themselves at him and feel like they were going to teach him,” she recalls, “we just found each other, and we didn’t have to deal with our sexuality.” Shields tells RS her conversations with Jackson about her relationships revealed a lot about how Jackson insulated himself from the outside world. “As I grew up and started having boyfriends, I would share with him, and he was like a little kid who talked about the bases — what first base was, what second base was, and it sounded very odd to the outside, I can imagine, but to the inside, to someone who’s never really left his bubble, you can understand how he would be curious.”

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:51 am

Quote:
He was the greatest entertainer that the world has ever and will ever see.


To some people, maybe.

My mother would probably say Frank Sinatra
My aunt: Elvis
Me: the Beatles
My 36 year old daughter: probably Michael
My 24 year old daughter: I don't know, but it wouldn't be Michael Jackson
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:14 am

my 26 year old daughter: Justin Timberlake so far
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:10 am

Where is Oprah?

TMZ commented last night about how Oprah has not been heard of since MJ passed away and they wondered if something strange was up with Ms Winfrey.

I had expected her to devote hours to the life and death of Michael Jackson, by now.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:08 am

Who could force a child to do anything? Really? I have chidren around that age and getting them to do something they don't want to do is like pulling teeth.........
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:23 pm

bamajen wrote:
Where is Oprah?

TMZ commented last night about how Oprah has not been heard of since MJ passed away and they wondered if something strange was up with Ms Winfrey.

I had expected her to devote hours to the life and death of Michael Jackson, by now.


Was Oprah a known fan? If she didn't know him personally and/or wasn't a known fan of his, it might seem opportunistic for her to get involved. Oprah has never struck me as the Al Sharpton type .. insinuating herself in everything that happens to a famous black person.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:33 pm

NancyB (admin) wrote:
Quote:
He was the greatest entertainer that the world has ever and will ever see.


To some people, maybe.

My mother would probably say Frank Sinatra
My aunt: Elvis
Me: the Beatles
My 36 year old daughter: probably Michael
My 24 year old daughter: I don't know, but it wouldn't be Michael Jackson


Personally, I would go with Beatles. My Dad says Elvis. And I have a friend you believes Elton John beats out Jackson as an entertainer.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:33 pm

nov1962 wrote:
Who could force a child to do anything? Really? I have chidren around that age and getting them to do something they don't want to do is like pulling teeth.........


I must have missed something...are people saying they think Paris was forced to speak yesterday?
I really don't think so...a lot of kids at this age don't have too many inhabitions when it comes to things like getting up in front of people. JMHO. (This is the age of children I've taught for over 20 years now).
I think that the youngest of Michael's kids is breathtakingly beautiful...that face...and his eyes looked upward...peeking his head out between his sister and brother.
What an interesting question...Where is Oprah, indeed?

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:19 pm

This was on last nights Primetime ( the full interview) in case anyone missed it

clip...
Michael Jackson's Kids Mom Debbie Rowe Interviewed


highlights and link

Debbie Rowe: Why She Had Jackson's Children

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/MichaelJackson/Story?id=8023028&page=1



For several years in interviews and court testimony, Rowe spoke highly of Jackson as a father and said that she had given birth to Jackson as a gift.
"I didn't do it to be a mother. I didn't change diapers. I didn't get up in the middle of the night, even when I was there, Michael did it all," she said.
"We had a boom box, you know, we had the music on, and conversation, wow, here comes another one, Michael was so excited! And he brought Prince, and I said, 'Are you sure he needs to be here?' So, this is like, you know. And he said, 'but this is so beautiful'.

In 2003, Rowe said that following the birth of their second child, a daughter, Paris, now 11, Jackson took the children and sent Rowe to live in a Beverly Hills mansion.
"You know what Michael did? He got me the most fabulous place to live. If you read the tabloids, it's the enclave of the enclave, Beverly Hills, which I have no idea what an enclave is, if it's chic-chic it's cool. I don't know. It's wonderful, beautiful yard, a place for my dogs to run and safe. And I went home. I recovered in my new home," Rowe said.
In the 2000 divorce, Rowe relinquished custody. In another hearing in 2001, she relinquished parental rights. In testimony before the court, Rowe said she had little contact with the children and wanted to remain out of their lives.
"I did it for him to become a father, not for me to become a mother. You earn the title parent. I have done absolutely nothing to earn that title," she told the court.
It now seems eerie, but when lawyers asked if she had "ever considered the possibility if Michael should die, what would happen to the children," Rowe said she trusted Jackson to pick an appropriate guardian.
"I'm sure he has a wonderful person in mind to take care of them," she told the court.

"You can only take lies for so long, and I have reached my limit, and that is why I'm doing this. I am tired of the lies, and I'm tired of the b***sh*it. He's -- the sad thing is that you guys won't get to see my Michael. And I feel sorry for you guys, because he is a very special human being. The personal Michael is indescribable. He's magnanimous. He truly is in every way."
"Had it not been for all the media stuff, I would have stayed married to him forever unless he finally got tired of me."
Minimal as her involvement with the children had been during their marriage, after the divorce Debbie Rowe said it was her idea to keep the children's public faces hidden with scarves and masks.

"That was my request, not his. Michael is very proud of his children. I am the one who is terrified someone is going to take his children. I said, 'You know what, I wear scarves, and it's no big deal. I said to pretend its Halloween,'" Rowe said in 2003.
In 2002, Jackson had a third child with another surrogate, whose name has never been made public.
That child, Prince Michael II -- also known as Blanket -- who is now 7, made headlines when Jackson dangled him over a Berlin balcony before hundreds of screaming fans.
In 2003, Rowe defended Jackson and his actions, saying, "I thought, 'Oh wow, look at the new baby.' He had a death grip on that child. That child wasn't going anywhere except right back in the room with him," Rowe said of the accident. "There's nothing inappropriate. It may not have been the best thing he's ever done in his life, but certainly I think it was made too big a deal of."
She says the media "took it and ran. ... They blew it up into something it's not."

Rowe Called 'Star Witness' in Child Molestation Case
A 2003 accusation of child molestation led to a 2005 trial. Rowe was called by the prosecution, on the theory that a bitter divorce would make her a good character witness against Jackson.
"The ones that were stunned were the prosecutors and the sheriffs, because they thought she was going to be a star witness for them, but she was a star witness for us," said Tom Mesereau, Jackson's lawyer.
"I think they hoped she would say that Michael was not a good father because they were in the middle of a contentious divorce. ... She said in effect that Michael was a loving father, that people were taking advantage of him, and she really helped us humanize him for the jury," Mesereau said.

When Jackson was acquitted of all charges, Rowe was seen as someone still firmly in the Jackson camp. But after his death, a bitter split became obvious.
Custody Battle Looms for Jackson Children
Those close to the Jackson family now say this woman who seemed so willing to pass on the job of motherhood wants custody of the children she all but ignored.
On June 29, four days after Jackson, 50, suffered apparent cardiac arrest in his Los Angeles rental home, a court granted temporary guardianship of Jackson's three children, ages 7 to 12, to their grandmother Katherine Jackson, 79.

Another hearing will be held July 13 to reconsider the guardianship. Sources close to Rowe's lawyers have said her legal team plans to attend that hearing.
Rowe's lawyers have not formally said she will ask a court to grant her custody, but Rowe last week gave an interview to a Los Angeles television station in which she said, "I want my children."
Rowe has had little contact with her children, son Prince Michael, now 12, and daughter Paris, now 11, since she divorced Jackson in 2000.
Despite her absence in the children's lives, Rowe retained parental rights and legal experts said her biological relationship to the children gsve her a valid claim to seek custody.
"Biology is very, very important," Judge Stephen Lachs -- the judge who restored Rowe's parental rights in 2003 -- told ABCNews.com.
"It's a very important factor when considering custody. But it's only one thing. When a judge looks at the best interest of children, you have to look at all the factors," he said.
"A judge is going to look at everything, including if there were settlements and how much they were for," said Lachs

Exclusive Look Inside Michael Jackson Mamsion

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7984902

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:49 pm

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/07/paris-jackson.html

Paris Jackson's memorial-service comments weren't planned, producer says


Jul 8, 2009, 06:08 PM | by Whitney Pastorek


The climactic moment of Tuesday's Michael Jackson memorial service came when 11-year-old Paris Jackson stepped to the mic and spoke through tears: "Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine," she said. "And I just want to say that I love him so much."
Ken Erlich, the producer of the memorial, has told EW that the moment was in no way planned. "A lot of the show was not scripted," he says. "A lot of the speakers spoke from their heart. We told them we’d be happy to work with them, but a lot of them -- the Smokeys, the Berry Gordys, the people who knew Michael all his life -- wanted to speak from the heart, on their own. When [the Paris moment] happened, I had asked the family to come up if they wanted to and say something. I thought, frankly, that we were going to get the brothers and the sisters. This went way beyond that, obviously."
Erlich also reports that the moment when Usher left the stage to sing "Gone Too Soon" next to Jackson's casket was similarly impromptu. "He did that on his own and it was wonderful," says the producer. "All we had time to do with this show is create the sense of it. The rest of it happened because we allowed it to happen. We didn’t want to get in the way."
You can read more about Jackson's memorial in this week's issue of EW, on stands Friday. (Reporting by Archana Ram)
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:19 pm

NancyB (admin) wrote:
Quote:
He was the greatest entertainer that the world has ever and will ever see.


To some people, maybe.

My mother would probably say Frank Sinatra
My aunt: Elvis
Me: the Beatles
My 36 year old daughter: probably Michael
My 24 year old daughter: I don't know, but it wouldn't be Michael Jackson


My 8yo would say Hannah Montana
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:21 pm

I agree not everyone was a fan of his music for some reason or another. What I should have said was he is and was the most popular entertainer that the world has seen based on record sales. He sold more that anyone in this lifetime and will continue to for years to come.


IMO, we just don't know for sure and at this point I would rather believe in my heart that he really did just love children and people took advantage of that. It just feels so much better then letting my mind go to such an ugly place. His kids love him, it is palpable, did he force them to? Did he pay them to? Did he scare them into adoration?


Does it really matter?
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:22 pm

jfan wrote:
bamajen wrote:
Where is Oprah?

TMZ commented last night about how Oprah has not been heard of since MJ passed away and they wondered if something strange was up with Ms Winfrey.

I had expected her to devote hours to the life and death of Michael Jackson, by now.


Was Oprah a known fan? If she didn't know him personally and/or wasn't a known fan of his, it might seem opportunistic for her to get involved. Oprah has never struck me as the Al Sharpton type .. insinuating herself in everything that happens to a famous black person.


I would think that some Black people would have been offended by Michael trying to rid himself of his Blackness in favor of becoming "whiter". Not saying this is the case with Oprah, but I think there has to be those who were hurt by him changing himself so much.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:25 pm

ebowers wrote:
nov1962 wrote:
Who could force a child to do anything? Really? I have chidren around that age and getting them to do something they don't want to do is like pulling teeth.........


I must have missed something...are people saying they think Paris was forced to speak yesterday?
I really don't think so...a lot of kids at this age don't have too many inhabitions when it comes to things like getting up in front of people. JMHO. (This is the age of children I've taught for over 20 years now).
I think that the youngest of Michael's kids is breathtakingly beautiful...that face...and his eyes looked upward...peeking his head out between his sister and brother.
What an interesting question...Where is Oprah, indeed?


I think all 3 of those kids are beautiful. Do you think Debbie Rowe is their mother? I was trying to find some similarities between her and the oldest 2.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:29 pm

Patricia, clearly he was loved by millions around the world. There is no one like him. He was one of a kind. But he also lived his life in a way that was different. People are going to have mixed feelings about that. At this point I just hope those children will be well taken care of and loved.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:39 pm

me too, I just have no clue who can/should do that...

I wonder if they had much contact with his family before this happened. I sure hope so. They are just so precious. It is weird to finally see them. I think the two older children are Debbie Rowe's biological children, they resemble her. If she truly wants to love and care for them, I think she should have the right to try. But if she just wants more money or it would cause a split between the 3 children she needs to just stay away.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:04 pm

thatgirl wrote:
NancyB (admin) wrote:
Quote:
He was the greatest entertainer that the world has ever and will ever see.


To some people, maybe.

My mother would probably say Frank Sinatra
My aunt: Elvis
Me: the Beatles
My 36 year old daughter: probably Michael
My 24 year old daughter: I don't know, but it wouldn't be Michael Jackson


My 8yo would say Hannah Montana


LOL my girls would probably say Zac Efron (I know he's not a "singer", but they love him) oh and the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montana LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:04 pm

Yes. I would hate to see those kids separated.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:06 pm

lovin wrote:
thatgirl wrote:
NancyB (admin) wrote:
Quote:
He was the greatest entertainer that the world has ever and will ever see.


To some people, maybe.

My mother would probably say Frank Sinatra
My aunt: Elvis
Me: the Beatles
My 36 year old daughter: probably Michael
My 24 year old daughter: I don't know, but it wouldn't be Michael Jackson


My 8yo would say Hannah Montana


LOL my girls would probably say Zac Efron (I know he's not a "singer", but they love him) oh and the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montana LOL


I can't wait until the Disney phase is OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think. Wait, I take it back. What's in store for us, Lovin could be worse scared
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:57 am



Oprah interviewed MJ in 1993. I remember this very well. I could only find part 4. I got the impression Oprah had mixed feelings about him.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:38 am

I think some folks here might think I'm really negative toward him. I actually think he may have been innocent ( in the eyes of the public... obviously legally he was )
And no doubt he was a very talented artist.

What gets my hackles up is his leech-like family. Over the years I've read about how he distanced himself from them. They kept wanting him to join the act again, but he always refused, even when he needed the money. And of course Joe had been completely cut off by MJ.

My other complaint is how the media is in overkill mode. They should make us want more coverage, not less.

I guess the next drama will the the custody of the kids. I just wish Janet was in a place in her life where she could do it. For some reason, I think she has the temperament and obviously the youth to raise the children. I also think Debbie Rowe should get better visitation rights. Again, from reading things, they made it very difficult for her to see or even communicate with them. No matter how crappy your mother is, I think kids always need to know they are important to their mother. Just look at all the stories about adopted children who want to know their birth mother. It's a pull humans have I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:00 am

I think it is important to remember a few things about Oprah. She was sexually abused as a child. I expect that plays into her feelings about Michael Jackson -- even if no charges are believed, I am imagine a victim of sexual abuse would be uncomfortable about a man admitting he brings children to his bed.

Oprah is also proud of her black heritage reflected in her producing the Color Purple on Broadway among other things. Michael Jackson seemed to run away from his black heritage (even if he didn't bleach his skin; he did change facial features to look less black).

I can totally understand Oprah having mixed feelings about Michael Jackson.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:41 am

Good posts, Nancy and Jfan.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson thread #2   Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:03 am

I was watching Larry King last night who interviewed MJ's Dermatologist, the recap isn't up yet but he said Michael at first tried to cover the patches with dark makeup but they became so big it was best to try to bleach the darker spots than cover the lighter ones. He also said MJ had extreme hair loss and Lupus, an autoimmune disease. There's a lot of pictures where his skin disorder was captured on the net but I'm not a good one to say if they are photochopped so didn't bring any here. I never followed MJ so was surprised at the Lupus diagnosis too.

should be up later...

Larry King..

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/



July 8th, 2009
Dr. Deepak Chopra: Michael Jackson Suffered from Lupus and Vitiligo



And the saga continues…
A well respected physician and author, Deepak Chopra, has come out to speak on his longtime friend and patient, Michael Jackson.
Dr. Chopra reports that the deceased musician has been suffering from Lupus, as a result of a traumatizing childhood.
“He had been diagnosed with lupus and he had vitiligo,” Chopra says. “There’s some recent research that suggests that if children have experienced either physical or verbal, mental, emotional or sexual abuse, then 20, 30 years later they can develop these autoimmune diseases including lupus.”
“Michael, he was never sexually abused but according to him, he was traumatized verbally and physically in his childhood, and it was a big issue with him.”
Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease that causes damage to any part of the body, whether it’s skin, joints or organs and destroys healthy body tissue. In the case of Michael Jackson, lupus affected his skin discoloration, also known as vitiligo.

Deepak Chopra & Michael Jackson (Huffington Post)

“He had a lot of blotches on his skin, huge white patches all over his body. So he would cover up his body and that of course gave food for fodder to the press,” Chopra says.
Deepak Chopra’s son, Gotham, also close to Michael Jackson adds:
“It was very disturbing to him that people thought he always wanted to be white and he was bleaching his skin. [But] he identified as being a black person and so it was troubling to him that everyone thought that he was a hater of his own race,” Gotham explains. “And the lupus, why he didn’t just come out more clearly and say that was the problem, I’m not sure. But I know it was something that bothered him a lot.”

http://spotlight.vitals.com/2009/07/dr-deepak-chopra-michael-jackson-suffered-from-lupus-and-vitiligo/



Michael Jackson told Fox news in 2007 that he had Lupus. He was diagnosed with it in 1986 but it went into remission at that time.

part of this article..

What Caused Michael Jackson's Cardiac Arrest?



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529122,00.html


"Was Jackson Suffering From Lupus?

In October 2007, sources close to the pop star confirmed to FOXNews.com that he was suffering from lupus.

“Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease where the immune system is unable to detect foreign invaders — like viruses – in the body,” Dr. Cynara Coomer, FOX News medical contributor and assistant professor of surgery at Mount Sinai Medical Center told FOXNews.com. “So the body creates autoantibodies – or antibodies that attack the body’s own healthy cells, causing inflammation.”

The inflammation caused by lupus can affect the joints, skin, kidneys, blood cells, heart, lungs and brain.

“Several studies have shown that this inflammatory process can occur in the arteries of the heart leading to the formation of fatty plaques, also known as atherosclerosis. This can result in cardiovascular disease and may lead to heart attack,” Coomer said.

Research estimates that at least 1.5 million Americans have lupus, the Lupus Foundation of America said on its Web site.

There are four different types of lupus, but the most common — and serious — form is systemic lupus erythematosus.

According to the Mayo Clinic, the signs and symptoms of lupus can come on suddenly or develop slowly over time and can include:

— Fatigue

— Fever

— Weight loss or gain

— Joint pain, stiffness and swelling

— Butterfly-shaped rash on the face that covers the cheeks and bridge of the nose

— Skin lesions that appear or worsen with sun exposure

— Mouth sores

— Hair loss

— Anxiety

— Depression

— Memory loss

“There’s no real known cause, but the most common type of patients afflicted are African Americans, American Indians and Asians,” Coomer said. “Certain antibiotics or infections, stress and some medications may lead to lupus.”

LOS ANGELES, June 28 (UPI) -- Dr. Deepak Chopra says his longtime friend Michael Jackson suffered from lupus and vitiligo and had been known to use strong pain medication, People.com reported.

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